>> they say he is part of the liberal elite looking down his nose at you good people, speak for the majority. >> krystal ball, thank you for joining us. >> thanks, lawrence. bread line for the right. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm kris matthews in washington. he has done it to damascus, now he is doing it here. president obama today drew a red line here at home. any republican who tries to bring this country into the default, fails to pay interest on the national debt is the enemy. there will be no deals, the president says, no talks, no schmoozes, no bedtime stories, no nothing. you are cut off. america will pay its debts. it will not default. it will not destroy its credit

in the world. and you can threaten. you can scream and yell, but the united states government will not fail in the bankruptcy because of this economic terrorism you on the right purport to be a political philosophy. well, the secretary of the treasury said it less dramatically this morning, but said it just as clearly. any attempt by the right wing to threaten this country with national default will be met with the strongest response, no deals. bashar al assad in damascus, but against those in this country who would jeopardize the country's financial strength. joining me right now are two political pros, democrat steve mcmahon, and republican john feehery. treasury secretary jack lew is warning republicans that unless they agree to raise the debt limit, the united states will default on its debts internationally in mid-october, earlier than some had anticipated. in fact, on an interview today

on cnbc, mr. lew had a clear message for republicans, and it's coming right from the president. take a listen. >> the president has been very clear. we are not going to be negotiating over the debt limit. congress has already authorized funding, committed us to make expenditures. we're now in the place where the only question is will we pay the bills that the united states has incurred. and it is just the only way to do that is for congress to act, for it to act quickly. what we need in our economy is some certainty. we don't need another self-inflicted wound. we don't need another crisis at the last minute. congress should come back and act quickly. >> some are talking about using the threat of economic meltdown to dismantle the afford care act. eric cantor aide says debt limit is a good leverage point to defund the health care law. a spokesperson for speaker john boehner recently told "hardball"

that they're looking at all options when it comes to the issue. and take a listen to senator tom coburn, republican from oklahoma, when we was asked about the affordable care act at a town hall just last week. >> what other alternatives are out there to keep this horrible bill from being implemented on october 1? >> well, the debt limit, the debt limit. the debt limit. you attach it to the debt limit. no, but the point is you attach a repeal of the mandatory spending to the debt limit. otherwise the debt limit doesn't go up. >> well, there he goes. i want john feehery to start here. i don't know what you think about this talk about basically the united states defaulting on its debt. whether to pay our bills as the secretary of the treasury puts it. where are you on that? do you think anybody in your party will really mount a significant effort to bring down the united states' special

credibility? >> i don't think we'll have a debt-limit crisis. i will say members of congress and the house and the senate, they've gone back to their constituents, they've been hearing loud and clear do something about obama care. >> do something about the law of the land. what is this, interposition nullification? what is this? >> it's a very unpopular law. >> it's the law of the land. >> part of it has been delayed, and they want to delay the rest of us. let me tell you another thing. >> no, they don't want to delay it. they want to kill can it. >> that's right. >> how do you kill something that is the law of the land. >> they killed prohibition. >> they repealed it. >> they don't want to repeal it. they want to default the national debt as a way of

whacking the president and the country at the same time. you got to be clear here. what are they up to? >> as the boehner aide said, they want leverage. they're trying to figure out the best way to get as much of the law delayed as possible. >> what do you mean about leverage? kidnap the united states economy? >> when they talk to their constituents, their constituents say one thing. do something about obama care. so these guys have to go do something. >> but you're saying it doesn't make sense what they're doing, but they're doing it because of heat at home. >> they're hearing from their constituents. a very unpopular law. 52% of americans want this law repealed or delayed. >> do you think the people that are at town hall meets are typical republican voters? >> i think they're typical primary voters. >> primary voters. >> they come in the primary. and members of congress are worried about that. and they want to be responsive. >> there is your argument. they're taking orders. i was only obeying orders. i'm going to bring down, create a jeopardy for the united states credibility in the world. we're not going to pay our debts anymore, because some people are raising noises in town meetings. that's a hell of an excuse. >> and a courageous member of congress would say you know

what's going to happen if we take down the united states government by doing this silliness? your 401(k) plan is going to be 20% less. the markets are already reacting to this. boehner stands up and says we're going have a great big fight over the debt market and the stock market goes down 170 points by the time i worked in here. hold on a second, john. the republicans are funny because they're against activist government. they're against the supreme court judicial activism. but when there is a constitutional law of the land that has been upheld by the supreme court that. >> want to bring it down by holding a gun to the debt limit so that the united states government will have its full faith and credit questioned around the world causing economic calamity here and elsewhere. >> they're looking for leverage. >> explain the leverage. what do you mean by leverage? >> that's not extortion. they're trying to find the best way to get the most out of a budget deal. chris you know this. it's not a budget deal. >> it's paying our debts. >> the mistake here that the president is making, because this will rebound on the president is he is drawing red lines in the sand when he should be trying to find common ground. >> let me tell you. remember the biblical story about king solomon and two mothers contesting as to who the mother was. one says why don't we cut the baby in half. the one who said let's cut the

baby in half is not the mother. your right wing party is willing to cut this baby in half. bring the government down to make your point. the political faction that is willing to destroy the credibility of the american dollar and our credibility to pay our debts is willing to kill the baby, aren't you? you call it leverage. >> let me ask you. if every republican vote no against the limit, would every democrat vote yes on extending it if it was clean? i bet you won't. this is a something they have to do. debt limits are hard to pass. they always have been. >> i don't think it's a bluff. >> so you're willing to stop the government from paying its debts if you don't get your way. >> i've said consistently this will not happen. >> there is something i'm unclear about. are you saying your right wing is willing to hold the government hostage and deliver the baby back even if they don't meet the deal.

because you're saying to avoid a default -- >> we will end up paying our debts. i have no doubt about that. >> when? on time? >> on time. >> well, then it's a bluff. >> it's a negotiation. i think that there is lots of different ways -- >> stick with the hostage metaphor. it's the only way it works. >> with dynamite says i'll blow this way up if you don't get red of the affordable care act? >> it only works if you're willing to kill the hostage. you're right, chris. >> republicans like ted cruz see this fall as their last chance along your lines to destroy the health care law. this is cruz in an interview with conservative news max tv earlier this month. see if he is bluffing or if he is just negotiating. >> the obama administration's plan is very simple. it is to get as in americans possible to addicted to the subsidies, addicted to the sugar, because they know the simple fact that in modern times, no major entitlement has ever gone into effect and then been undone. >> exactly. >> and so they just want as many people receiving subsidies because once that happens, i believe it is likely that obama care will become a permanent feature of our economy. >> so there he is. it's armageddon. if you don't kill this baby,

it's going to grow up and become something popular like social security and medicare. >> that is certainly his belief. and it's a belief of many on the right. i don't happen to share that belief. >> willing to negotiate? >> the house is not willing to negotiate. you know who else is not willing to negotiate? the president. >> of course. he is not going to give up on a program that is matter of law. >> but you got to negotiate too. you got get the votes. you got to negotiate. who is saying they're not going to negotiate? the president. >> does the president have a right to say no deal? >> absolutely. absolutely. the contrast that i think is most interesting isn't between john boehner and the president. it's between john boehner and mitch mcconnell, who by the way has said there are only 14 republicans who want to do this crazy course of action. and mitch mcconnell, who is facing his own republican primary is actually going to -- i'm going to say something nice about mcconnell now. he is standing up and trying to

be a statesman here. >> he is a relative liberal in that party. didn't he just lose to ron johnson? he beat him by one point, rather? half the senate is to his right. >> he is taking -- >> but mitch mcconnell isn't going to take the country over the cliff. mitch mcconnell is a grownup who understands what is going on here. the guys in the house are loony tunes. >> let's take a look at the politics. let's take a look at who gets blamed. who will be more blamed if the united states breaches. according to this, obama and the democrats are blamed 33%, and republicans are 45%. that isn't a wild difference. i admit it looks like a lot of blame gets thrown around there. what do you make of this? >> i think both sides get blamed. i think the whole government gets blamed. i think because the president is the president, in history he'll be responsible. >> is that why he is saying no deals? >> i think the maximum leverage. jack lew is very smart. this is speeding this thing up. we've got to do it quicker.

>> your use of this word leverage is unbelievable. i'm going to stick of dynamite. i'm going to take your baby and kill it. that's leverage. but it's a vicious way of using the word. >> the fact of the matter is these guys are in a hard place because their constituents hate obama care. from various reasons. >> so they're only taking orders? >> they're trying to responsible to their constituents. >> you ever listen carefully? it's not that the reasonable leadership are unreasonable. they have to listen to the crazies on the right. and the crazies on the right, the wild bunch we're going to call them tonight, have to listen to the crazies back in the last row of the next town meeting. and therefore the craziest people at the town meeting control the craziest people in the senate and house who control the leadership. the tail is wag the bag. thank you john mcmahon and thank you john feehery. we love having you on. you explain the craziness. senior officials are talking about three strikes of damascus beginning as early as two days from now, thursday. but what isn't clear now is exactly what those strikes would

get done. what would be the consequences of blowing up places and killing people? also, race and economics. president obama's ability to blend those two strains in american society could be the key to his success. well, tomorrow he'll have a chance to reset the agenda for his second term at the great anniversary of the 1963 march on washington. and bachmannistan. "hardball" made famous. finally, who is jamming with this '70s rock group cheap trick. ♪ this is "hardball," the place for politics.

well, yesterday we told you that general colin powell says republican voter id efforts designed to depress the minority voter will backfire. and now radio host laura ingraham, a conservative herself agrees, kind of. ingram said on fox that republicans are failing to make a positive case for voter id laws which she insists are nondiscriminatory. as a result she says the democrats more emotional arguments are winning the day. but in fact, the effect of voter id laws is discriminatory, laura, and that's why republicans are losing the argument. we'll be right back.

welcome back to "hardball." on syria now seems the question isn't if, but when. according to jay carney today, the president deliberating on what an appropriate response should be to the syrian government's near certain use of chemical weapons. and this afternoon the vice president added his voice to a

growing number of officials condemning the syrian regime. >> there is no doubt that an essential international norm has been violated. violated. chemical weapons have been used. there is no doubt who is responsible for this heinous use of chemical weapons in syria. the syrian regime. the president believes and i believe that those who use chemical weapons against defenseless men, women, and children should and must be held accountable. >> nbc news reports that the u.s. missile strike against syria could come as early as thursday. that's two days from now. senior u.s. officials tell nbc to expect three days of strikes, and one senior official says the point would be to send a message. they do not expect to significantly degrade syria's

physical ability to make these kind of strakes. today british prime minister david cameron said the world cannot stand it, cannot stand by as it sees this massive use of chemical weapons. >> no decision has yet been taken, but let's be clear what is at stake here. almost 100 years ago, the whole world came together and said that the use of chemical weapons was morally indefensible and completely wrong. and what we've seen in syria are appalling scenes of death and suffering because of the use of chemical weapons by the assad regime. and i don't believe we can let that stand. >> but there are significant questions that have to be asked at some point. what will a bombing attack accomplish? can we really persuade the syrian regime not to use chemical weapons again? and can we really do enough to send a message without getting bogged down in this war? richard engel is chief foreign correspondent for nbc news. richard, you know all the questions.

i'll give you time to answer them at length. the big question, of course, is how do we send a message that is going to involve killing people and doing damage to the regime in damascus at the same time not become a belligerent in a war in which we don't really have a friendly side? >> well, it's basically impossible. you can't say we're going to attack the syrian regime, but we're not going to get involved in the civil war in syria. once you fire a shot and you drop bombs on damascus or on any military site you are involved in the war. now the question you were talking about earlier, which is the fundamental conundrum here is how does the united states do something. we're going to send a message, but we don't want to do enough to really change the equation on the ground. so we want to launch a military strike, but we don't want to shift the balance of power or really make a difference on the ground.

and i think that's one of the things that the syrian rebels are struggling with, trying to figure out what exactly does the united states want to do? are they trying to help us? are they trying to posture and send symbolism back to the american people, back to other world leaders? what is the real goal? how do you send a message with bombs? you are getting involved in a conflict whether you like it or not. >> how do we prevent them physically or policywise from using chemical weapons again? >> well, the regime right now is facing an enormous civil war. and it is facing a very splintered and very fractured rebel movement. as you mentioned, there are a lot of these rebel groups that the united states doesn't agree with, or the united states hates that are legitimately terrorist groups that are kidnapping journalists, kidnapping aid worker, holding the country hostage. there are only really one or two rebel movements that have any kind of international support, the free syrian army being the biggest one. that's the group of general salim madris, the general that senator john mccain visited when

he came to syria on that surprise trip. other than him, there is not that many rebels in syria that the united states would have any interest in supporting. so if you attack syria, you collapse the regime, you better hope that this one rebel movement that is more or less thinks like the united states and wants a modern state that is democratic to emerge in syria wins at the end of the day. and there is no guarantee that is going to happen. if the u.s. acts strongly, you would see the regime breaking up into different chunk. you could see an alawite state, a kurdish state, you could see the regime still holding on to parts, and we could have years of conflict. if you do too little, then you really haven't done anything at all. >> what would be the reaction, or can you predict it of russia, of vladimir putin and hezbollah? hezbollah is his big partner

over there. they're all over israel, lebanon. they can hurt us, i suppose. what would be their reaction if we got involved in this war against damascus? >> already israel has put some of its anti-missile systems on high alert. israel is concerned that hezbollah could be activated, that iran, hezbollah, the syrian regime could decide to retaliate by diverting attention. the united states is attacking us in syria. well, hezbollah, our allies is going to attack the zionist enemy and we're going to try to motive the entire middle east. it's an old playbook in the middle east by saddam hussein's era, but so is using chemical weapons. i don't think anyone can really rule that out. russia has already said it's not going to go to war over syria, but it still supplies a lot of weapons. it supplies a lot of political support.

but i don't think you're going to see necessarily russian troops flowing over in syria to help the fight. >> okay. the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff at home, martin dempsey has been seen as a skeptical voice when it comes to using military action over in syria. here is why. in a letter to congress, he wrote about his concerns regarding the rebels. quote, syria today is not about choosing between two sides, but rather about choosing one among many sides. it is my belief that the side we choose, we should choose or choose must be ready to promote their interests and ours when the balance shifts in their favor. today they are not. in other words he is saying to paraphrase him, we have no friends who are likely to win and be on our side in that fight. >> we have a friend, the free syrian army. but haven't been doing very much to support him. so there is no guarantee that he

would win. and right now on the ground, he is not even one of the most or the free syrian army is not even necessarily the most powerful group. when you go around syria, and i was just back in the other day, and i've been many times, you see checkpoints fly aggravate of flags, including the al qaeda flag. so you don't know who is going to win. and i think the more likely scenario is breaking up of the country where you have al qaeda-linked groups taking one part, kurdish groups, pkk, which are also considered a terrorist group taking other parts. you have the faction that we like, the free syrian army holding a piece, and the remnants of the government holding either damascus or coastal areas around lebanon. >> well, thank you very much, richard engel over in that area. and by the way, it looks like as i said at the start of this segment, it looks like we're going in there on thursday. that's two days now with apparently three days of strikes. apparently their capabilities to launch further attacks to use chemical weapons. this is "hardball," the place for politics. too big.

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as if anthony weiner doesn't have enough problems. he was involved in a minor car accident over the weekend. here is that story. >> several of the candidates for new york city mayor went to washington for today's march, but before leaving, anthony weiner was in a minor car accident, losing control of his car and crashing into a house. >> welcome back to the sideshow. that was of course jay leno last night reflecting on anthony weiner's real life misfortune. the primary will be held in two weeks. he may be out of office, but scott brown joined the '70s rock band cheap trick on stage at a concert in hampton beach, new hampshire, over the weekend, where he is going run for the senate, i guess, and where he

showed off, rather, his guitar skills in an american flag polo shirt. there you see it. ♪ whatever happened to all this season's ♪ >> afterwards brown tweeted, quote, i fulfilled one of my bucket list items. i got to get up on stage and played "surrender" with cheap trick tonight. wow. but brown wasn't the only politician to enjoy himself this past weekend. colin powell was another one to show off his moves on stage with pharrell williams. look at that. there is the former secretary of state, colin powell on the left alongside the great jamie foxx. ♪ seems like he had a good time too. next stop, anyone who has seen "all the president's men" knows it's a watergate landmark. but where he met mark felt, may be demolished. that site was immortalized in this legendary scene.

>> i have to do this my way. you tell me what you know and i'll confirm. i'll keep you in the right direction if i can. but that's all. just follow the money. >> i think that was hal holbrook. the building attached to that garage, which was built in the early '60s from us in arlington, virginia, is reportedly nearing the end of its useful life. developers plan to replace wit a full block of offices and condos, but they promise to honor the site's infamous legacy. finally, a bird's-eye view of the local new jersey governor's race. a crop circle maze. you know those things, depicting governor chris christie and his democratic opponent barbara buono. it takes about an hour to complete from start to finish. and while neither campaign says

they have plans to visit, christie's spokesperson did use the maze to knock his opponent's supporters say, quote, feeling lost, directionless, and not sure how you're going get to the end? sounds like a buono supporter to me. and buono's campaign responded saying, quote, i believe this is the first time governor christie has been spotted in a corn field outside of iowa. up next, obama, race, and class. the president's big speech coming up tomorrow for the anniversary of the march. and you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

i can no more disown him than i can disown the black community. i can no more disown him than i can disown my white grandmother, a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed her by on the street. and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe. >> what a statement by our president. welcome back to "hardball."

then candidate barack obama facing questions back then with his relationship with the reverend jeremiah wright. made a speech in philadelphia, addressing race in this country. it's frequently cited as a turning point in his campaign. it's certainly a turning point historically. race is a topic that events have often driven the first african-american to speak about publicly, as in july 2009 when the president was asked his reaction to the arrest of african-american harvard professor henry louis gates. there he is in handcuffs, in his own home when a neighbor mistakenly thought he was an intruder. a neighbor said the cambridge police had acted stupidly. shortly after the arrest, the president convened the president and the professor for a beer summit at the white house along with vice president biden. and following the zimmerman verdict, the president made personal comments about being a black man in america. let's listen. >> there are very few african-american men in this

country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping at a department store. that includes me. there are very few african-american men who haven't had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. that happens to me, at least before i was a senator. >> tomorrow the president will speak at a ceremony commemorating the 50th anniversary of the march on washington, speaking in the same spot, the lincoln memorial from which martin luther king delivered his i have a dream speech. what a day it's going to be tomorrow. president obama has signaled what may be the framework through which he talks about race tomorrow, linking economic inequality and racial inequality in a speech to college students in binghampton, new york last week. let's listen to what may have been a preview. >> what we've also seen is that the legacy of discrimination, slavery, jim crow has -- has meant that some of the

institutional barriers for success for a lot of groups still exist. you know, african-american poverty in this country is still significantly higher than other groups. same is true for latinos. same is true for native americans. >> clarence page is a columnist, a pulitzer prize winning columnist for "the chicago tribune." and glenn flush is senior white house reporter for politico, whose piece today is headlined "obama, race, and class." glen, give us a sense of what you can report or predict even about the president's approach to race and economics tomorrow at the lincoln memorial. >> well, i think it's going to be a combination of the personal and looking towards the future and king's unfinished business. the thing that obama has been reiterating all week and a lot of his staff have been talking about is the sense that what people don't realize is the march on washington had a component of economics.

and over the next five years, from '63 to '68, king really became much more of a national figure involved in anti-poverty. when he was killed in memphis, he was in support of the sanitation worker there's. and from '67 on, he was involved in the ill-fated poor people's campaign. so what obama is going to emphasize, and he touched on it in his speech in binghamton and also in an interview with "the new york times" is the component of economic justice. i'll tell you, chris, the democratic party in general, nationally is becoming much more focused on that issue. bill de blasio in the new york city mayoral race is focusing on, that using some of obama's old campaign aides. so this is an issue, i think, that makes it a little easier for obama to talk about race, connects him more with white working class voters, but also helps him pitch forward in terms of his second term agenda.

>> you know, i get depressed at these conversations because i grew up like you, we're about the same age, clarence, and i got to look back at north philly. it's more impoverished than ever. >> right. >> the lines of what do you call it, just going down hill has moved up further north. more houses in disrepair. lousy signs up, signs of all kinds of poverty and fast food stores. not a decent fresh food market in sight. >> right. >> the food deserts. it just grows and grows. and the democratic party has been representing those areas as long as i have lived. >> that's right. >> and the president is the leader of the democratic party. >> i think if you look at where we were 50 years ago and where we are now. 50 years ago when you said inequality, people thought about

racial inequality. i think president obama is going to talk about the other part of martin luther king's speech, economic inequality or wage inequality. >> what is he going to do for it? what can he propose even? >> i wish he would go first of all what protesters in d.c. have been trying get him do which is by executive order raise the minimum wage on fast food places that are contracted on federal property like union station, the reagan building, other washington, d.c. -- >> he can do that right now, right? >> he can do that by eo, executive order. franklin roosevelt did a similar move, doesn't need congress. and it would be a great gesture if he did it, and it would really mean something as far as closing that gap. and those contracts, those fast food places make three times more profit than ordinary by the highway. >> at least we're getting paid even though the food is terrible. i'm serious. tomorrow, these neighborhoods, the poor neighborhoods are the worst served by decent food stores. you can't buy a banana, an apple. you can buy something that has been in the store for three week, sure. but you can't buy anything clean or good. >> in d.c. there is no -- there are certain neighborhoods in d.c. where you can't sit down and eat a meal, chris. >> i know about it. let me ask you about this about tomorrow. my problem with the president, i look at good politics always the same way.

have a big idea, and then have something middle sized that he can actually move through congress and make it real. reagan, whatever you think of his politics and philosophy understood this. the country thinks the government is too big. we've got to get tougher on the communist. so he spends more money on defense, cutting spending domestically. everybody cabdriver in this country knew what reagan stood for and he got it done. obama, you sort of know what he stands for, racial justice and economic opportunity. but what is the thing he is doing that is moving through congress that is going to do it? that's my question. what is that thing? >> that's a really interesting point. when i asked a white house official tonight what was going to be sort of connecting that vision to what king was -- and remember, king talked explicitly about poverty. obama tends to bind it as democrats have done, as you know, chris, to the middle class. he doesn't really sort of extricate the poor.

he did in that speech in binghamton a little bit. he is not what clarence wants. he is not going to address the minimum wage in any way nor specific than a broad increase in the state of the union. he is going to talk about early childhood education, a proposal he made earlier this year and reiterate the pitch he made on student loans for students. this is not a president who feels particularly comfortable talking about the poor per se. you can look at a lot of his policy, including aca. >> what about the white poor, bobby kennedy uniting the white poor. >> that's right. >> and the black poor. i look at appalachia, at kentucky right down that strip that didn't like them that much. if he began to champion those people. >> look at single moms in suburbia. that's where your poverty is today. >> really? >> you don't have white ghettos the way you have black ghettos. >> these divorced women left with the kids? >> many are divorced. some are never married or

widows, whatever. you've got -- that's where poverty is in the white community, not to mention, of course, all the chronically unemployed men. >> he is a great speak. >> not as comfortable with that as bill clinton, for example. but that's the way. >> you agree he needs a product. you say it's minimum wage. i say it's a big jobs bill. but something that is real, not to ends with the words. you can't end with the words. yes, quickly? >> chris, speaking of words, the one thing i would look for, will he say the word detroit. >> right. >> well, detroit is a great symbol of failure. anyway, thank you, glenn thrush. thanks for giving us the idea for the piece. what he is going took tomorrow about economic inequality, not just racial inequality. up next, bachmann's stand. we're talking about michele bachmann. a new ebook just came out. more trouble for her. her staff is in revolt. even her own people on coming out against her on her way out. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

just a day before the 50th anniversary of the march on washington, how much progress has this country made toward reaching dr. martin luther king's vision of racial equality? well, it all depends upon who you ask. 56% of republicans but just 38% of democrats say the country has made a lot of progress. the difference in opinion has a lot to do with the political makeup of the two parties, as we can imagine. 48% of whites say a lot of progress has been made. only 32% of african-americans agree. that explains a lot in the party difference. and we'll be right back. we are back. ♪ honey, we need to talk. we do? i took the trash out. i know. and thank you so much for that. i think we should get a medicare supplement insurance plan. right now?

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for a brief moment there it looked like she could win the 2012 republican nomination for president. that was her high point, of course, before the whole house of cards began to collapse. bachmann is currently under investigation for campaign finance activities by the office of congressional ethics, the federal election commission, iowa senate ethics committee, the urbandale, iowa, police department and according to the "minneapolis star tribune" the fbi. just last night a privately published tell-all e-publication co-authored by a former bachmann campaign staffer was released trashing the one-time presidential campaign. entitled "bachmannistan." a behind the scenes look at the congresswoman. she was made famous on "hardball" in october 2008 with these unforgettable remarks. let's never forget them, and let's listen. how many are anti-american in the congress that you serve with? >> you'd have to ask them, chris. i'm focusing on barack obama and

the people that he's been associated with. >> do you suspect a lot of people you serve with -- >> their anti-american nature. >> he's a united states senator from illinois, one of the people you suspect as being anti-american. how many people in the congress of the united states to you think are anti-american? you already suspected barack obama. is he alone, or are there others? how many do you suspect of your colleagues as being anti-american? >> what i would say is the news media should do a penetrating expose and take a look, i wish they would. i wish the american media would take a great look at the views of the people in congress and find out, are they pro america or anti america? i think people would love to see an expose like that. >> okay. thank you very much. u.s. congressman michele bachmann of minnesota. well, that was the launch pad there. joining me right now to discuss bachmann's rise and fall, abc news 2012 embed who was placed on the bachmann campaign, now a producer.

nbc's own james novogrod. co-creator of the "daily show" lizz winstead. thank you for joining us, starting first with james. what happened to bachmann in why did she come off as a morning glory or a roman candle flying so high back in the last presidential cycle that she won the iowa straw poll then sort of became, i don't know what, imploded, what? what would you say happened with all these investigations? now as of last night her staff coming out with all this stuff about her. this garbage. some of it shouldn't even be quoted about. i think it's indecent to be talking about anybody you worked for this way. the total lack of any loyalty at stake here. >> a bit of a stunning reversal of fortune, chris. to go from winning the straw poll then less than six months later finishing last among the competitors in the caucuses, this is a story of someone who in some ways her message of toughness and plainness of being iowa's daughter, the daughter of

waterloo, iowa, didn't necessarily comport with some of her behavior, her showing up late for events, for instance, chris, rubbing local party organizers the wrong way. one of the classic examples of this is that event only a night after winning the iowa straw poll, sharing the stage with rick perry, it was rick perry's debut on the stage that night, on the presidential stage. he'd only announced the day before on the day of the straw poll, and she waited on her bus. the crowd was waiting for her. she didn't mingle with people. it was a dinner event. and by contrast, rick perry had mingled and done quite well. >> okay. let me go to lizz winstead about this. i don't know what the comedy is in this whole thing except, you know, a peacock today, feather duster tomorrow which is the nature of the political beast we serve here. you never know what's going to turn around, but i thought she had a very good chance at winning the republican nomination. they were running right wing. she's a right winger, had the

hot hand, had the microphone. all of a sudden it just went away. >> i think, chris, there was also -- one of the things there was so much said previously before she graced her presence on "hardball" where you made her a star, you know? i think when you look -- here's the thing that i just kind of am shocked at is, you know, before any of this, you know, when she was saying that is no studies that prove carbon dioxide is safe or the hpv vaccine. these people decide to come onboard and hitch their wagon to michele bachmann's star. i agree with your setup. it's an embarrassment of dissing your boss this way but also crazy these people are following her. so what does that really say about the whole lot of these people? >> let me go back to james. were people working for her just for the money, just for the opportunity, had no liking for her? no respect for her? that doesn't speak well of them. i don't think. >> no -- >> your thoughts. >> to the contrary. to them, to many on her staff, and to many in her natural

constituency. the evangelical voting bloc in iowa, for instance. michele bachmann represented something very pure. i would imagine that some of them would agree to work for her without being paid. in fact, they did at the end of the campaign when they told they wouldn't be paid because the finances were so bad.

>> how do you describe the e-book out as of last night trashing her? >> this is another stunning thing when it comes to michele bachmann and her relationship with former staffers and with voters that many of them, including this particular co-author, peter waldren, the evangelical outreach director for the campaign, still they say respect her. still say -- >> with friends like that, you need enemies. hey, lizz, thanks so much for coming on. lizz winstead. you're much better than this story. bachmann is not the big story it was back when we made her here on "hardball." thank you, james novogrod. good luck with your new assignment. lizz winstead, you're always welcome here on "hardball." you're watching "hardball." the place for politics.

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let me finish tonight with this. there's no way to predict how far or how crazy the right wing of this country is headed. no way. nor is there any way to safely

predict its leader. how can anyone including me forget that the winner of the iowa presidential straw poll, the last time around, was michele bachmann? with the power, the heat and the atmospherics in the republican party all point to an extremely hard draft to the right between now and 2016. it's a long way until then, of course. will the wild bunch of ted cruz, rand paul and mike lee get caught in a box canyon of their own liking, make a mistake of trying to bring down the u.s. government, risking or damaging our financial credit in the world? will they hurt the american economy just to make a political point? we will have to see. and we'll see fairly quickly. this point of no return for the wild bunch coming up on us, in fact, in mid october. we just learned that yesterday. most vitally, will the president of the united states stick to the redline he has drawn against this recklessness? will he pursue a program of economic justice and job creation and opportunity while holding fast and hard to the country's fiscal trust? will he stick to his promise that when it comes to the

enemies of this country's economic strength, he'll do what he's determined to do to damascus, make any crossing of his redline a faithful decision for those who dare to do it. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. > good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. tonight on "all in" we are told that a u.s. military response in syria is imminent. the u.s. defense secretary says the military is ready to strike. syria's foreign minister says his country is ready to defend itself. what will happen and when? that's coming up in a moment. also tonight, summer vacation is wrapping up for congress, so they're revving up the obstruction machine for a triumphant return to washington in the never-ending west to defund and destroy obama care.